If you have not already done so, please read Blog Posts 1 through 5 that describe how sleep is important and beneficial. I will post specific information for parents and children based on my book, “Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child.” Please do not be put off by my book’s length. This is a reference book. Read only the topic of interest to you.
(Continued.)
In older children, the benefit of a nap might be delayed. In a study of children 3–5 years old, emotional memory was enhanced, not immediately after a nap, but following overnight sleep, compared with a no-nap challenge. In other words, there is some interaction between a nap and subsequent night sleep that helps memories to consolidate. This observation highlights the view that, while aspects of sleep may be studied separately, there is interaction among naps, night sleep, bedtimes, night awakenings, time awake after sleep onset, and sleep durations. As a parent, just as we look at the whole child, not merely eye color or smile, we should look at the whole of sleep and not focus on only one part.
A study of children 3–6 years old showed that naps enhance executive function (improving attention in the presence of conflicting information). Furthermore, this benefit was observed in children who habitually always took naps as well as in those who napped inconsistently (less than 90 percent of the time). So even if your child naps infrequently, please try to protect these nap opportunities; there is a real benefit to these naps.
Finally, a separate study of children also 3–6 years old looked at three groups of children based on nap habituality:
Objective measures of sleep showed that on an experimental nap promotion day (children were encouraged to nap between 1:00 and 3:00 P.M. by teachers’ verbal encouragement: “Today is nap day, try to sleep”), total nap sleep time increased for all three groups. Napping did not reduce night sleep. Naturally, there are circumstances where real-life events interfere with your child getting a good nap, and if these events are infrequent, I wouldn’t worry about it. However, a general rule of thumb is to encourage and protect naps as long as possible.
As night sleep and day sleep become more organized, researchers studied the impact of the proportion of total sleep that occurs at night instead of simply the duration of sleep (day, night, and total sleep). Parents’ reports at 3 and 8 months and objective sleep measurements at 8 months showed that a later bedtime was associated with shorter night sleep duration (even though the wake-up time was later), and the parents reported longer day sleep durations resulting in a lower proportion of total sleep occurring at night. The parents whose children had later bedtimes also reported at both time points increased difficulties for their infants settling to sleep, increased latency to sleep (time required to actually fall asleep after being put down), and more time awake during the night. Surprisingly, these parents also reported at both 3 and 8 months an increase of total (twenty-four-hour) sleep duration, but the proportion of total sleep occurring at night was lower.
Another study found that infants at 1 year of age who had a greater proportion of total sleep occurring at night scored higher, at age 4 years, on tests of executive function, reflecting higher abstract reasoning skills, concept formation, and problem-solving skills. This suggests that when a too-late bedtime causes a shorter duration of night sleep, babies may have poor-quality sleep—even those babies who have longer naps, and thus a normal or even a longer twenty-four-hour sleep duration. The two variables, the time of sleep onset (bedtime) and the proportion of total sleep occurring at night, seem to be associated with each other and/or they might be individually important, or one variable might only be a marker for the other. Either way, early bedtimes matter.
Finally, one study of children age 3–6 years with temperamental negative affect (a tendency to react to stressors with high levels of negative emotionality characterized by high discomfort, fear, anger/frustration, aggression, sadness, and low soothability) and late bedtimes were more likely to exhibit externalizing (attention problems or aggression) and internalizing (anxiety or depression) behaviors. The authors stressed that the relations between temperament and behaviors “were not moderated by sleep duration.” Instead, the late bedtime “confers risk for maladaptive outcomes [because it alters] the proportion of time spent in distinct sleep stages [Emphasis added].”
Supporting the idea that late bedtimes alone, and not short sleep durations, might be harmful is a study among 15-year-olds with late bedtimes during the school year. Worse educational outcomes and emotional distress were observed six to eight years later, but short sleep durations were not associated with changes in academic or emotional functioning.
(To be continued.)
Hi Dr. Weissbluth,
My 2 year old (2 years and 4 months) still naps during the day for about 2 hours, but when he does, he doesn’t fall asleep until late at night. And he usually wakes up early – in the 5s. When we skip his nap, he is totally able to function and be happy, and he falls asleep more easily at night and usually sleeps until at least 6 am. Should we drop his nap even though he is not even 2 1/2 yet? I know naps are important, but I’m wondering if it’s interfering with the quality and quantity of his night sleep.
Thank you!
On their second birthday, almost all children are napping once a day, every day, for about 1.5-2 hours.
On their third birthday, 92% of children are napping are napping about 6 times per week for about 1.5 hours.
So after the second birthday, naps are still common but they are decreasing in terms of the per cent of children napping, the number of naps per week, and the duration of each nap.
Your child is past his second birthday and I would focus on his mood and behavior around 4-5pm to tell you (1) whether he needed a nap on that day, (2) whether he might temporarily need a super early bedtime and no naps at all, or (3) sometimes skip naps and sometimes give nap opportunities based on how how night sleep went and/or how he looks around 11am -12pm. There is no single right answer and sometimes you will be spot on and sometimes your decision will be off. This is the reality of parenting so go easy on yourself.
Thank you so much for your prompt response!
“We usually don’t nap him.” On these usual days, how does he behave and look around 4-5PM?
Hi,
My 2 1/2 year old wakes up way too early. We usually dont nap him because then he falls asleep after 8 pm and still wakes up in the 5s. He is still tired. When we dont nap him, he is usually asleep around 6, sometimes a few minutes before and sometimes a few minutes after. He’ll still wake up in the 5s. Today he woke up at 430 and wouldnt go back to sleep – which he has done before. He’s exhausted. He hasn’t taken a pacifier since he was a couple months old, so it’s not even like he needs anything to fall asleep. He doesn’t take a bottle either. I don’t know why he won’t go back to sleep when it’s so early, and why he won’t sleep later in general – until at least 6 am. It’s dark in his room – so it’s not the sun that’s waking him.
He’s definitely tired and will fall asleep if we are driving anywhere. He’s not particularly cranky or anything though. He really does still “need” a nap it seems, but he just goes to sleep way too late if he naps and he doesn’t wake up later at all
Between 4-5pm, “He’s definitely tired and will fall asleep if we are driving anywhere.” This means that his brain is not functioning at a normal alert level and he is not able to normally absorb sensory input from the environment and/or process it normally. Impaired brain health is the problem to focus on. Because he is, and has been for a while, short on sleep, his brain is in a hyper-aroused state (to fight the chronic tiredness) that makes it difficult for him to return to sleep in the early morning during a normal light sleep phase. Hence, the early morning wake up times. The early morning wake up times are a symptom of chronic mild sleep deprivation.
Before giving you some suggestions, What are you thoughts regarding my interpretation?
That makes sense. I am just at a loss of what to do being that it seems like a catch 22 if I nap him or if I don’t. I’m happy to take any suggestions and try different things that can maybe help!
Currently, what time (and range of times) do you begin a bedtime routine and what time (and range of times) does he actually fall asleep at night? Please describe a typical bedtime routine in terms of what you do and how long it lasts. Is he deep asleep or drowsy but awake when you finish the bedtime routine? Do you stay in his room a while (if so, how long?) or leave promptly after the bedtime routine? What is the role or contribution of the father regarding sleep?
If he doesn’t nap which is usually, bed time routine usually begins around 545/6. He is usually asleep shortly after that. Sometimes though he comes out of his bed a few times and we have to bring him back, and then bed time can take a bit longer. If he naps, then it can take an hour or more for him to fall asleep and we start bed time routine later. The bed time routine consists of my husband telling him a story and I say a prayer and sing to him. Routine is only a few minutes long. He has a bath sometimes too before that but not every night. He shares a room with his older brother who is 4 1/2. We started putting his older brother to sleep after he falls asleep because we found that he falls asleep faster and is calmer.
He’s always awake after bedtime routine but will sometimes be asleep very quickly after. Neither my husband or I stay in the room until our kids fall asleep. We leave right after bed time routine. As mentioned above, my husband does the story and I do the prayer and songs. If my son keeps coming out of bed, we trade off who puts him back in. In the early morning wake ups, my husband usually takes care of it but my son sometimes will only yell for me. I hope this answered all the questions! Thank you
Because of his age and having an older brother who probably has some scheduled afternoon activities, consistently do not nap your younger son. For the next 5-10 days, rigidly begin the bedtime routine earlier so that you are leaving his room at 5:30pm. The primary expectation is that he will get more sleep at the front end and that he will appear less tired between 4-5pm. Secondarily, he may start waking up a bit later, yes, later in the morning. Either both of you completely ignore his yells for you or have only Dad respond. Immediately have Dad do all the returns to sleep at bedtime and definitely establish “Sleep Rules” as discussed in my book. Keep a written record of bedtimes, fall asleep times, curtain calls, wake-up times, and observations at 4-5pm.
Please be optimistic because Dad is helpful and cooperative, because there are no bedtime battles and /or frequent night awakenings, and you son has self-soothing skills.
Let me know your thoughts about this plan and if you agree, give me a detailed response in 5-10 days to make adjustments.
Sweet Dreams,
DrW
Thank you so much. I’m going to try this and write a log to report back!
Excellent. It is impossible for parents to be 100% consistent; in real life, I consider parents to be perfect if they are 80-90% consistent. However, for the next 5-10 days only, strive for 100% consistency regarding your sleep plan. For example, never allow him to be riding in a car or some other lulling to sleep situation in the late afternoon during these next 5-10 days. Consistency for 5-10 days will allow you to sit back then and judge whether this trial is worthwhile, modifiable, or needs to be abandoned. Good luck!
Thank you!! Sounds good!
Here are my recordings after 5 nights and days:
Night 1: In bed by 5:30 pm. Already asleep at 5:37 when I checked on him. He didn’t come out of bed after bedtime.
Day 1: Wakeup: A few minutes after 5 am. Stayed in bed for a half hour more because he wanted me, but I wasn’t going to come – the finally was willing to come out to my husband. Behavior between 4-5 pm: Nothing noteworthy. But he acted up a little bit after 5 and hurt himself…
Night 2: Bedtime 5:25 pm. Asleep at 5:33 when I checked, but probably fell asleep before.
Day 2: Wakeup: A little before 5 am. I went to him and then husband did and he stayed in bed a little longer because my husband told him I’d come (even though I wasn’t). He then yelled his head off for me for a bit until finally went to dad…Behavior 4-5 pm: Nothing noteworthy.
Night 3: Bedtime 5:21 pm. By 5:29, he was already sleeping.
Day 3: Wakeup: 4:50 am. Behavior 4-5 pm – nothing noteworthy.
Night 4: bedtime: 5:29 pm. Came out of bed twice, then we closed his door…and opened it again and he didint come out. His cousins were over right before, so maybe it made him more wild. Sleeping by 5:42 pm when I checked.
Day 4: Wakeup: a few minutes after 5 am. Behavior between 4-5 pm: nothing noteworthy.
Night 5: Bedtime: 5:27 pm. Came out of bed twice. Then I (because dad wasn’t home) closed door and opened. He came out again. Then i closed the door and took his water bottle and then after I opened door and gave it back, he didn’t come out again. His grandparents were over, so that could be why he was more excited. Asleep at 5:37 when I checked. He woke up in the middle of the night – around 11:10 pm. Called for me. Dad wasnt home, so I had to go. Called again a few minutes later. Dad came home and laid in bed with him until he fell asleep around midnight.
Day 5: 545 am I heard him saying mommy outside my door. Dad went out to him.
He seems to be more willing to go to dad in mornings now which is good.
Should i continue? Is the goal eventually to push his bed time a bit later and hope he wakes up a bit later? 530 pm bed time is definitely not doable long term I don’t think. Should he for sure not be napping and then just falling asleep later? the problem, as i mentioned above, is he never woke up later in the morning. but is there a way to have him nap still and wake up later in the morning? i don’t want him to be sleep deprived. and i also want him to be waking up generally at 6 am or later….
Thank you!
First, congratulations on your consistency and record keeping!
“My 2 1/2 year old wakes up way too early. We usually don’t nap him because then he falls asleep after 8 pm and still wakes up in the 5s. He is still tired. When we don’t nap him, he is usually asleep around 6, sometimes a few minutes before and sometimes a few minutes after. He’ll still wake up in the 5s. Today he woke up at 430 and wouldn’t go back to sleep – which he has done before. He’s exhausted.”
In reply to Anonymous. “We usually don’t nap him.” On these usual days, how does he behave and look around 4-5PM?
“He’s definitely tired and will fall asleep if we are driving anywhere…If he doesn’t nap which is usually, bedtime routine usually begins around 545/6. He is usually asleep shortly after that.”
In reply to Anonymous. Because of his age and having an older brother who probably has some scheduled afternoon activities, consistently do not nap your younger son. For the next 5-10 days, rigidly begin the bedtime routine earlier so that you are leaving his room at 5:30pm. The primary expectation is that he will get more sleep at the front end and that he will appear less tired between 4-5pm.
I know that your goal is a later wake-up time, but I would suggest that you equally focus on his mood and behavior between 4-5pm. Does he appear less tired between 4-5pm?
Here are my observations, for the past 5 nights, his bedtime was about 5:30pm and he fell asleep within about 10 minutes or less. This tells us that the previous bedtime “around 6” was too late on no-nap days.
Please read Blog Post 80 on “Recovery from Sleep Loss”. How dark and quiet is his room around 5am?
Here are 3 suggestions:
1. Stay the course for a while. When he appears less tired around 4-5pm or the latency to sleep (time required to fall asleep) starts to increase substantially beyond about 10 minutes, then begin a slow and gradual attempt for a later bedtime. For example, move the bedtime later by just 15 minutes and observe for about 5 days: Does the sleep latency increase or decrease, what happens to his behavior and mood between 4-5pm, and does he come out of his room more or not. If all goes well, after the first 5 days, move the bedtime another 15 minutes later for 5 additional days. Repeat this process. Eventually, sleep pressure will build, and his wake-up time will be later. The most common pitfall is making the incremental change in the later bedtime too large and rushing the plan too fast. Then, bedtime battles and/or night wakings occur because the child is at a state of neurological arousal from being way over-tired.
2. Try to consistently nap him every day with a soothing routine beginning somewhere between 12noon and 1pm or a little earlier if he appears drowsy. On the days that he naps, because of the variability of nap duration and the timing of the nap, watch carefully his behavior and mood around 4-5pm to determine when to begin a soothing to bedtime sleep routine.
3. Days vary in terms of outdoor/indoor activity, scheduled activities for both boys, your schedule, etc. Try to nap him only when you think it is appropriate and you are able to. Here, there will be more variability in the bedtime.
What are your thoughts?
His room is pretty dark and quiet – he and his brother sleep with the door open and a closet light on in the hallway near their room, but their room has blackout shades. So I don’t think it’s any light that is waking him. And they sleep with a white noise machine.
Thank you for those 3 suggestions. Are they mutually exclusive? Is it that each of these might be done depending on if he naps? There might be days where he is going to have to have a later bed time (vacation etc), in which case, I would want to nap him during the day. Is it bad to be inconsistent like that?
It will be impossible to follow suggestions 2 and nap him between 12-1 in theory because he ends his playgroup at 1:30 and for the next school year, he ends at 1 pm.
We will be traveling in a week and a half for 3 weeks to visit family- jet lag will be involved, and it will also be difficult to have him in bed at 530 while we are away. Is there a way to try and ensure that I don’t go backwards with building up his sleep pressure?
Thank you so much for all this help! I would never have known to put him to sleep even earlier than I was or that he was sleep deprived without your expertise and insight.
Has there been any improvement in his behavior between 4-5PM?
Please read Blog Post 63 on ‘Sleep Banking’ for your upcoming family vacation.
Yes I actually did read that post – I’m just not sure how much earlier I can put my 2 1/2 year old to sleep than 530….and my almost 5 year old doesn’t fall asleep usually if I put him in too early…
In terms of behavior between 4-5, it’s hard to tell how tired he is/if there is anything so drastically different about his behavior. If we are just home, he is usually playing/eating dinner, and nothing seems so out of the ordinary compared to his behavior at other times of the day.
Previously, you described him as getting tired between 4-5pm. Does he still appear as tired between 4-5pm as he used to appear now that he has gone to bed earlier for the past five nights?
Right, I have to pay more attention specifically to the tired factor at that time. It is sometimes hard to tell with him because he has a lot of energy in general. It is easier to tell if we are driving, like I had mentioned, and he falls asleep.
Because you have a family vacation coming up, I would recommend suggestion #1 (a consistent pattern to get more night sleep) for now and during the three weeks with your family, suggestion #3. Let me know how it goes.
Because of cultural differences, please tell me, in what country or cultural context will the family vacation occur?
Thank you!
We are traveling to America – we don’t live there anymore but we have family that does
Will the family allow you to continue with early bedtimes?
Yes we can try, it just might not always be practical if we are out doing something etc
Hi again,
About how long should it maybe take until he might start being able to have a later bed time/ wake up later? Weeks? Months? Longer? I just want to know what is within the range of normal 🙂
Also, would something like melatonin help him sleep maybe just a little later? He has been waking up before 5 am more often than he used to. It used to just be sometimes – every few weeks or month or more. And now it has been a few times already recently.
Thank you!
I am sorry that there is no way to make that prediction. The single nap occurs in about 92% of 3 years-old and 57% of 4 years-old children. Because your child is close to 3 and you have another child, I do not think that trying to establish a nap now and a later bedtime makes sense since he might outgrow it in a few months. On the other hand, maybe, biologically he still needs a nap and you are compensating for not giving him a nap with a super early bedtime (which contributes to his too early wakeup times). My guess is that as his brain matures and daytime sleep pressure decreases, he will be comfortably able to stay up later and sleep in later between 3-4 years of age. Do you want to try to establish a nap now?
I think it might be difficult to start his nap again. I can possibly try to when he starts school next year. He ends at 1 pm, and I can nap him then. But I’m not sure if that is what’s best for him. I just don’t want him to be chronically sleep deprived/short on sleep anymore, and of course, I also want him to get to a later wake up time so that we can all sleep a bit more.
My 3 year old has recently started not falling asleep during his nap time. He stays in his bed for an hour or sometimes two, but he doesn’t fall asleep. Then a couple hours later he’s completely crabby. Last night I put him in bed early, by 6pm (after a meltdown) and he was quiet for a while but didn’t fall asleep, then had a second meltdown and after all was said and done, didn’t fall asleep til 8. What can I do to help him sleep more since clearly that’s what he needs? Is 6 not early enough? And for naps, should I not allow him to have any stuffed animals or books in his bed?
When he was napping, what was his usual nap times and bedtimes?
When did he stop napping?
He usually laid down for his nap around 1 and then his bedtime was between 7 and 8. He stopped falling asleep for naps a couple weeks ago.
8 was too late and he acquired a sleep debt that accumulated and caused his change in nap behavior. He needs an earlier bedtime based on drowsy signs. What is his exact age in years and months? His age might be a clue whether he should or should not be napping .
3 years and 2 months. In a 3 year old, are drowsy signs mostly just behavioral? Like whining more than usual? Or more defiant?
My kid is 2y 4m and recently started waking up at 4-5AM. He naps well during the week and has 1-3 hr naps depending of the day. He goes to bed between 8-8:30 sometime a little earlier. When he wakes up he wants to play and has no sleep drive. What can I do?
Hello,
I have read your book and referenced it many times. I have also read several blog posts and comments I am a first time mom to an almost seven month old. Your information has been so helpful. Unfortunately with me returning to work, baby getting sick and starting daycare bad habits with sleep started and now we are struggling.
Our plan this weekend is to start with early bedtime reset and extinction vs graduated extinction. I had a few questions and can’t remember or find what you advise (I know I have read it somewhere…)
1.) naps are a problem. Should we nap train at the same time as working on night sleep? Or do we hold/rock:contact nap to maximize day sleep until night sleep improves?
2.) my baby goes to daycare. I haven’t seen you address this much…. What can I communicate with daycare workers about naps? Recommendations on how to handle this? I think they may have him napping in a swing as I see other kids doing this when I pick him up. Do you think this is impacting sleep at home?
Thank you!!
Because naps are well established by 6 months of age, work on naps and night sleep at the same time. Daycare varies a lot. Get details regarding naps and carefully observe mood and behavior at the pick up time; what time do you arrive home with your infant from daycare? Share this info with me and give me details regarding weekend sleep for your infant. Then I can give you specific advice.
More nap questions, but this is about how will I know when he’s truly done with napping? I know the stats reported in your book about percentage of children at each age napping every day or a few times a week. I’ve also read your above responses to other queries. Our son is now 2 years and 7 months old and has begun refusing naps more and more often. He missed perhaps 3 naps the entire first 2 years and 5 months of his life. So just in the past 2-3 months has been skipping naps altogether. He doesn’t resist the routine or being put in his toddler bed for a nap, but then just hangs out, rolls around, talks or sings to himself for an hour+, before we give up on the nap. This began in earnest after the abrupt transition to his toddler bed, but has persisted consistently ever since. The frequency has started to increase in the last month, with at least one nap a week being skipped, often more. On the days when a nap does not occur, we move up his 7pm bedtime to 5:30pm, and he generally falls asleep very quickly and sleeps through until morning. His mood is not ideal on his no-nap-day afternoons (quick to cry) and we are not able to drive anywhere as he will almost immediately fall asleep in the car. His 24-hour sleep totals are much higher (13-14 hours) on days when he doesn’t nap, compared to days when he does nap (11-12 hours). He is not currently in preschool, and no other big changes have occurred in our lives in this time period. His bedtime has remained unchanged as well. We are struggling to determine if this is a phase, if he truly just doesn’t need a nap every day, or if he is somehow ready to drop his nap entirely. Any guidance you can provide on how to navigate this transition, if that’s what it is, would be greatly appreciated.
Based on his age and “His mood is not ideal on his no-nap-day afternoons (quick to cry) and we are not able to drive anywhere as he will almost immediately fall asleep in the car.”, I think it worthwhile to attempt to get back on a daily nap routine. Use “Sleep Rules” for naps and nights with highly motivational rewards for compliance and restrictions of privileges for non-compliance. Make the poster and because night sleep is not a problem, the reward should be so powerful that he will also want to get it for naps.
It’s possible that his 7pm bedtime, when he does nap, is a little too late and what has evolved is cumulative sleepiness causing the nap issue. On nap days, please watch closely for subtle drowsy signs when alone with toys (no screens or parental involvement) between 4-6pm and also experiment with an earlier bedtime, say 6:30pm for a few nights as a trial or even earlier based on drowsy signs. If he does fall asleep before 7pm, then you know, after the fact that this was probably the reason why nap issues developed.
How does this sound?
Please clarify: “His 24-hour sleep totals are much higher (13-14 hours) on days when he doesn’t nap, compared to days when he does nap (11-12 hours).”
Thank you. I think a motivational poster/reward system is a good idea for naps. His nap has been drifting later, and its taking him longer to fall asleep for his nap (up to an hour). The 7pm bedtime is when we put him in bed and leave the room, he still has his “normal-for-him” 1 hour of rolling around before sleep, so sleep onset is usually around 8pm.
The only big drawback/concern for us is when he is waking at 3pm or later, having so little time in the afternoon for play, dinner and bath.
I was just mentioning that with his very early bedtime on no-nap days, he ends up getting more total sleep time, then on days he naps with a later bedtime.
It’s been 6 days since we implemented the prize-for-nap, with lots of reinforcement every day. He’s only skipped one nap in the 6 days, but is still struggling to fall asleep for his nap, sometimes taking up to 90min. He’s consistently pooping now after we put him down for his nap, so that is delaying as well. On the one day he skipped his nap he was very unhappy in the afternoon (put him to bed at 5:30 and he fell immediately to sleep). We’ve been putting him down to bed before 7pm on days he does nap, but it is becoming increasingly difficult. With his delayed nap he sometimes doesn’t wake until 4pm. We’re committed to getting him back on regular naps, but nothing we do seems to be helping him. Considering the possibility that his noon naptime is too late and we should try putting him down earlier?
” Considering the possibility that his noon naptime is too late and we should try putting him down earlier?” Yes!
Are there any changes in mood or behavior that suggest when you might try an earlier naptime?
Here’s a suggestion that sometimes works: You put him down extra early for a fake nap; he is soothed and relaxed and poops, you clean him, minimally play with him, soothe him again and now the real nap is attempted. I honestly don’t know how often this works but maybe it’s worth a try.
How does this sound to you?
Interesting. I think its definitely worth a try. Sometimes he yawns or stares off in to space in the morning, but MUCH earlier than his nap, sometimes as early as 10am. Also yesterday he did not nap again, and was pretty good in the afternoon, even playing by himself for a few minutes. Will continue experimenting this week to see if something will work or if he may be ready to drop his nap after all.
Thank you!
Please read the section in my book regarding going from one to no naps to give you some more suggestions.
My almost 4 year old has suddenly started resisting naps and bedtime. She is SO tired and each day is getting worse. In bed by 6pm and has been doing all of the things to keep herself awake. We talked about staying in bed, close your eyes, try to sleep. Then once she is asleep, she wakes up middle of the night (different times) and is WIDE awake. It can be 1-3 hours before she falls back asleep. Any suggestions?
When exactly did the sleep problem develop?
Before the sleep problem developed, what was her usual sleep schedule?
Please read the Chapter in my book ‘Sleep Solutions’ and tell me which one comports with your values that you would like to try and I will try to help you.
It seems pretty clear now our 2 year 9 month old son is ready to not nap at all anymore! This is day 7 of no nap. We tried almost every tweak you can think of, with no effect. He happily goes through the nap routine and gets in bed but just rolls around and plays. His afternoon moods have stabilized, and he’s quite pleasant around 4 and 5pm, even when on his own. We moved bedtime up to 5:30 and he falls asleep within 20minutes every night instead of rolling around for an hour + like he did when he was napping and had a later bedtime. He has been waking up at 5:40am some days, but hoping that shifts back closer to 6:30am over time (this morning he woke at 6:35). He was waking from his naps in a very bad mood often so it’s nice not to have to deal with that. We’re instituting an hour of quiet time at 1pm now. I was unable to find a section in your book dealing with dropping the nap completely.
It starts on page 639.
My nap study might represents optimal napping and therefor might overestimates common experiences:
At age 24 months, 100% of children are taking naps, but at 36 months, it’s 92% (Page 640)
Other studies show that:
At age 24 months, 87% of children are taking naps, but at 36 months, it’s 50% (page 644)
So not napping for your son 33 months is completely normal. He might need an early bedtime to remain well rested in the later afternoon for many months.
If he wakes up way too early, read the section on ‘The 5:30pm Rut’.
Enjoy your son!
Thank you so much, as always!
Just wanted to leave a brief update. After 7 days of not napping and doing well, and Dad and I fully accepting our new no-nap life, our son started napping again, hahahaha. We had been putting him down at 1pm, and letting him “rest” in his bed for one hour, making sure to tell him that he didn’t have to sleep, and on day 8, he fell asleep and has fallen asleep every day since. We give him 1 hour to fall asleep, and if he falls asleep, we wake him after 1 hour of sleep. His long naps were interfering with his bedtime and he was waking in a bad mood, so we’re experimenting with a week of capping his nap at 1 hour.
They are so good at keeping you on your toes!
Congratulations on being flexible. During this transition, early bedtimes based on drowsy signs are most likely to keep him well rested.
My 3.5 year old has begun occasionally skip a nap. We do sleep rules so he just lays there quietly, but not asleep during nap a couple days a week. I know your book recommends a 5pm bedtime for children much younger than the age of 3 if they skip a nap. But what is your recommendation regarding bedtime for the days when he opts for quiet time instead of a nap?
Nap is 12:30pm, bedtime is normally 7pm
It is age-appropriate for naps to begin to disappear. Bedtimes are based on drowsy signs. When there is no nap, it might be earlier than when there is a nap.
My daughter is about 2.5 and is typically a very good sleeper. We read your book front to back and have stuck to your method – it’s been great. However as she’s getting older I have a question about pushing to a later bedtime.
She’s up between 6/6:30, sleeps usually 2 hours at daycare (cut off is 2:15pm) and we typically have been putting her to bed by 6:30. She’s had that bedtime for a long time – maybe since 9 months. When she was younger she would fall asleep in less then 10min and sleep 12 hours. Now it’s hit and miss, sometimes taking her up to 8:00 to fall asleep.
Now she’s not unhappy or crying. She’s usually singing her heart out and talking to herself very happy. Weve just been leaving her and she’ll end up sleeping until 6/6:30am. Should we be pushing her bedtime later now that she’s older? Even on days she stays up until 8 singing in bed she seems so ready for bed by 6:30pm. Tired, irritable, just looking for her bed. But when we leave the room it’s Disney karaoke time
When did this start?
Please describe her mood and behavior in more detail between 5:00-6:30pm when alone with toys (no screens or parental involvement).
Please review Blog Posts 9, 83, and 115X)
In terms of verbal skills, social skills, curiosity, and creativity, do you or her day care minders think she is gifted or highly intelligent?
Does she understand consequences?
We have a child that is 3 years and 11 months old. Lately he has been waking up throughout the night about every 1.5hrs until the morning. He yells out for us “Papa? Mama?”and waits for a response usually along the lines of “Yes we are here”. He does this throughout the night. This behavior started while we were away on vacation and stayed in a hotel room where he was in a separate living space but the partition between his room and ours was transparent. Since then, we have noticed his waking up and looking for us. It used to be 1x/night and now has gradually increased to waking after almost every sleep cycle. As for his naps, he sleeps regularly and takes a 2hr nap from 1-3pm. We don’t have issues with his nap.
Now that is almost 4, we cannot keep him contained in his crib (he is in a normal bed) and we fear that he may wander outside his room if we don’t respond. When we are slow to respond to him, he yells louder and seems to be genuinely afraid. How to help him without abandoning all the hard work we have invested (we read your book and sleep trained him very early on) while still making him feel secure? Any help is appreciated! We are desperate for sleep and also worried that he is not sleeping enough. He has always been an excellent sleeper before this. We largely credit you for this!
“…seems to be genuinely afraid. ”
The distinction between fearfulness and willfulness may be difficult to determine. The degree to which there is a strong family history of anxiety symptoms, his behavior at pre-school, the playground, and during the day at home, and discussions with your pediatrician may clarify what is going on. The book, “Freeing Your Child From Anxiety’ might be helpful. Once you have some clarity on whether he is developing anxiety symptoms or not, I can help you.
Read the section on ‘Sleep Rules’ but do not yet start them because they should be modified if your son is developing anxiety.
Does this help?
This is very helpful! I suspect the answer may be more complex than willfulness but as you said, it’s quite difficult to distinguish the two. There is indeed a history of anxiety in the family. I have anxiety and so does his older sister (our middle child) who is 13. We manage it through therapy, yoga and breathing exercises. My husband who has practiced yoga for 10 years has tried to teach him breathing exercises when he feels overwhelmed at bedtime, which seems to help a bit, but he still seems frightened when we are not responding right away to reassure him that we are there. This can go on sometimes for hours when we put him to bed. In the night, he will wake and ask if we are there, but when he hears us respond from across the hall, he will go back to sleep.
Some context which may help: we moved into a new home several months ago, he has started school this year for the first time, and he has two older sisters who are 13 and 16. We have a big age gap between our two daughters and our youngest. At school, he was reluctant to participate and often stayed apart from the other kids and activities. His teacher has said he has come a long way, now playing with other children and participating in the activities. Due to having older kids, we simply did not have the time to schedule activities for him to socialize with other kids his age before this school year. More importantly, we have always prioritized his naps which conflicted with many activities in his age range.
This year was a tremendous learning curve for him and we are proud of him for coming this far in adjusting to many new factors in his life. I agree with you that we should also schedule an appointment with his pediatrician to see if this is developmentally typical or if this is his anxiety coming through at night. Either way, we want him to sleep for his own health, but it’s proving difficult to get there! We felt extremely discouraged because as I’ve said, he’s always been a great sleeper until recently. I don’t know if this post helps clarify our situation, but thank you for responding so promptly. We have your book as our sleep bible, highlighted, post-its galore peeping from the pages. Thank you as always for your guidance!
I am very positive about Yoga and breath work and have my own practice. Please read the book I suggested and consider consultation with a specialist who only does Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for anxiety in children after consultation with your pediatrician.
Healthy sleep might be helpful in reducing anxiety symptoms.
1.When do you begin the bedtime routine?
2.Do you see pre-sleep arousal (Blog Post 204) or fatigues signs (Blog Posts 83 and 115X) during the 60 minutes before the onset of the bedtime routine?
If yes, was this present before the vacation?
Please read the section on ‘Cumulative Sleepiness”. Maybe cumulative sleepiness is the cause of or is contributing to what is going on.
Hi there, my 7.5. Montj olds wakes at 530 every morning. She is doing 2 naps most days now and they are usually good naps, between 1-2 hours (usually 3 hours of daytime sleep total) but some days are off and she’ll only do a 30 minute nap (this happens once a week/10 days). But consistently she wakes at 530. We try to do the first nap at 9, sometimes I’ll put her in her crib at 845. What can we do about these early morning wakes? She just babbles to herself and chews on her sleep sack until we get her at 6 AM. She falls asleep independently for nights and naps. She doesn’t wake in the night before this 530.
When does she fall asleep at night?
Please describe her mood and behavior when alone with toys (no screens or parental involvement) during the 60 minutes before she falls asleep at night.
Hi Dr. Weissbluth,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you regarding your questions. I will read the book you recommended “Freeing Your Child from Anxiety”. I fear it may be stemming from some separation anxiety. We met with his pediatrician but her advice was unhelpful at best. She told us to have him sleep in our room or in our bed which is not the goal for us and she didn’t believe in any sleep training. Thus she wouldn’t recommend a therapist or anyone else. I think it’s time to find a new pediatrician;)
I read all the blog posts about pre-sleep arousal and signs of drowsiness. I don’t see signs of drowsiness but he does seem energetic after his dinner and bath. He used to go to bed at 8pm with a bedtime routine that began at 7:30 when his dad comes home from work (bath if from 7-7:20, dinner 6-7), but now since he is fighting his bedtime, he doesn’t fall asleep until 9:30pm on most nights, sometimes later as he keeps asking for us and calling out to hear us respond.
His naps are still consistent and he sleeps for 2hrs each day from 1:30-3:30. He used to wake up at 7:30am but now after waking up all night, he screams when we wake him up at 8am (luckily his school is around the corner). We are trying to find a therapist who works with young kids, but until then, do you have any advice you can offer us? As you can imagine, we are desperate and quite concerned for him.
Read Blog Posts 171 and 172 to understand that his “he does seem energetic after his dinner and bath” is caused by over-tiredness.
‘Circadian misalignment’ is jargon for sleeping out of phase with biological circadian sleep rhythms. It is unhealthy sleep because it is less restorative; think jet-lag syndrome. Your child has this and it can be solved.
“He used to go to bed at 8pm with a bedtime routine that began at 7:30 when his dad comes home from work (bath if from 7-7:20, dinner 6-7)”. The solution will involve an early bedtime. Will your husband allow you to put him to sleep before he arrives home from work? Know that once his sleep is corrected, your son will naturally get up earlier and there will be calm father-son interaction in the mornings. I will give you detailed advice on the sleep solution if he allows the early bedtime which I think is a necessary part of the solution. Let me know if he agrees.
Online, I reviewed services at UTSA and “Behavioral Pediatrics” in SA and two providers might be worth evaluating, but understand that I have no direct knowledge of them: Veronica Villarral and Mario A Fierro. One idea is to make an appointment with a specialist now (as a back-up plan); that appointment will likely be several weeks in the future, work on his sleep now, cancel or keep the specialist appointment as needed. A hitch might be that a specialist might need a generalist to make the referral. Alternatively, the specialist might help you find a new generalist.
I know this is complicated but if your husband will full cooperate and be supportive, his sleep will improve and help or dissipate his anxiety symptoms.
Dr. John T. Fitch Jr, in San Antonio is a pediatrician mentioned by “Mel” in the thread of Comments in Blog Post 228C.
Thank you for all of the information in the Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child book, it has been a huge success with my children. My oldest will be 4 years old in one month. I have struggled to find an appropriate bedtime for him for about a year now.
Current routine:
7am: morning wake up
12:30pm: Naptime begins. Usually asleep within 15-30mins.
2:30-3pm: Nap ends. I wake him up by 3pm if he is still asleep as to not interfere with an early bedtime. Nap usually 2 hours long.
6:30pm: Bedtime
8pm: Falls asleep
As you can see, he lays there quietly for about an hour and a half before falling asleep at bedtime (does his Sleep Rules). He will tell me he is tired when I put him to bed at 6:30pm. If i try to push the bedtime later, I have tried 7pm and 7:15pm bedtimes, each for about a week, it has ended in disaster where he doesn’t fall asleep until 10pm!
Should his nap be cut shorter (1.5 hours instead of 2 hours?).
I have found if he gets 12.5-13 hours of sleep in a 24 hours period he is very pleasant. Anything less than that he is a wreck. I’m trying to see where I am going wrong here, how I can achieve that 12.5-13 hours for him without him having to lay in bed for 1.5 hours at night falling asleep?
When will be his 5th birthday?
Describe his mood and behavior when alone with toy (no screens or parental or sibling involvement) between 5:30-6:30pm? If never alone then, make him alone for 1-3 days for observation.
Any suggestion of shyness, fearfulness, or anxiety symptoms? Any strong family history of anxiety symptoms?
Ask him what’s on his mind when alone in between 6:30pm and falling asleep time.
He will turn 4 years old at the end of next month.
He is never alone 5:30-6:30pm, that is usually my husband’s time to play/work on house projects with him while I put our younger child to bed earlier. We will do no parental interaction for the next few days and observe.
No family history of anxiety. He’s definitely not anxious, fearful or shy… he is my fun high-energy extroverted kid.
Yesterday he skipped nap (happens 1-2x a week so he fell asleep right away last night). I will ask him what he is thinking about the next evening it takes him a long time.
I have been watching him closely the last few days in the hour leading up to his 6:30pm bedtime. Here are my notes. Any insights would be appreciated! Thank you!
Wednesday:
Nap: slept 12:30-2:10p, asleep immediately. MASSIVE meltdown breakfast time
Better after 9am but spaced out a lot of morning. Did sleep rules
Bedtime: 6:19p bedtime. Slept 8:10p-7:00am. Cranky first 30 mins after nap ended. Hyperactive 4:45-5:20pm. Started checking in with me a lot around 5:15pm. Took him up for bedtime routine at 5:40pm. Skipped his bath bc he started getting really disagreeable. He stalled bedtime pottying. Did NOT do sleep rules
Thursday:
Nap: left him alone 12:30. Slept 1:15-3:00pm (woke him up). Morning was very enjoyable! Did sleep rules.
Bedtime: 6:30p bedtime. Slept 8:30pm-6:30am. No trouble going upstairs for bedtime routine. May have been awake even earlier, he was up before my husband. Did NOT do sleep rules.
Friday:
Nap: slept 1:30-3pm (woke him up). Left his room at 12:30pm. Said he was tired back at 11am. Did NOT do sleep rules
Bedtime: 6:39pm bedtime. Fell asleep 8:45pm-TBD. Groggy after
his nap. Better around 3:30pm. Went upstairs for bedtime routine fine at 5:50pm. Hard to get him out of bathtub 6:05pm. Said he was tired at 6:15pm. Slow moving for bedtime routine. Did NOT do sleep rules again.
I asked him what is on his mind when he doesnt fall asleep for a long time each of these nights. He’s told me things like motorcycles, construction workers, etc.
I feel like I’m in a real battle with the sleep rules right now, is this normal for the age? You can see a lot of times he is intentionally sabatoging even with strong punishments/rewards.
Currently: “He is never alone 5:30-6:30pm, that is usually my husband’s time to play/work on house projects with him while I put our younger child to bed earlier” If, and only if, your husband agrees, please try my suggestions for only 4-5 consecutive nights, keep data, and then we will re-evaluate. It might take 4-5 days to see a clear trend of helping or hindering him.
1. Stop all naps. Initially, he will need extra distraction and soothing to get through rough periods in the afternoon.
2. Temporarily, bedtime is 5:30pm (he is bathed, fed, soothed, and you aer leaving the room at 5:30PM). Be rigid about this bedtime for at least 3 nights and send me a progress report describing the latency to sleep onset, the wake-up time, his mood and behavior during the day with a focus on 4:30-5:30pm.
3. Be rigid about always using Sleep Rules during this trial. Please describe the rewards and restrictions of privileges and the poster you use for Sleep Rules.
4. Read the section on Parent Issues on pages 219-233 and tell me if any apply.
The hope is that he will have more night sleep and less need for a nap. Do not wake him in the morning. In the future, his bedtime will be later.
How does this sound?
Thank you for your advice. My husband and I were not hesitant to voluntarily allow him not to nap (I’m 6 months pregnant with our third child & he is a handful without napping) but J had other plans – the last 2 days when I put him down for nap at 12:30p he did not nap. Here are my notes. None of the parents issues apply that you suggested reading.
SUNDAY:
Slept 6:35p-7:00am (no nap)
Notes… 5:30pm bedtime
In room 12:30-2:30pm, didn’t do sleep rules – lost his kickboard for swimming in afternoon & his riding tractor outside
Bothering sister/dogs after 3:30p
Fell down & cried hard 4;15p
Second wind sillies by 4:45p
Calmed down mostly during bedtime routine
Did NOT do sleep rules – lost all toys in our family room, put them up on Dining Room table
Husband heard him yawn 6:20am but he didn’t move until 7am so think he was still asleep
MONDAY:
Slept 6:10pm-5:48am
Notes….
5:30pm bedtime
Mood decent in morning but said he was tired at 11am
Second wind by 12pm – hyperactive
Attempted 12:30pm nap. Did not do sleep rules at all – lost swimming in afternoon & basement toys
Picking on dogs and sister & said he’s tired 2:30pm.
3pm – sobbing, second wind shortly after.
5:30 bedtime – did sleep rules but super restless. Earned a morning at the park with friends & his basement toys back.
He earned the park with friends for the morning but I’m quite nervous to take him with such an insanely early wake up time. Mood so far this morning is iffy already, picking on sister first thing. He never picks on her when he’s well rested.
Thank you for your help!
My 13 month old wakes up 6-8 times a night still yelling/crying. She’s always been a horrible sleeper but we started getting better stretches of sleep occasionally before 12 months (from 8pm-1:45am max). But she recently has taken a turn for the worse and is up extremely frequently and cannot be resettled. We bring her in bed with us anywhere from 11pm the 1:45 wake up after not being able to get her back in her crib. She’s had stomach issues and constipation but were not past that and she’s on miralax at the moment for the past 10 days so that cannot be to blame at the moment. She’s teething and going through a developmental leap it seems but her wake ups are extreme from what I’ve heard. She naps great, 1.5 hr for first nap, 1 hr for second nap, then a 4 hour wake window before bed.
Were exhausted and not sure what to do. If we sleep train her im not confident she still wouldn’t wake up since she seems extremely sensitive to any discomfort. Would appreciate any input!
Carefully read Blog Posts 36, 37, 143, 233C.
What time does she fall asleep at night?
Describe her self-soothing skills at nap and bedtime.
Read the Chapter on Sleep Solutions, choose one that comports with your values and life style and I will help you.
My daughter turns 3 in a few weeks. We used your methods for sleep training from birth and overall, she’s a good sleeper. It is rare that she has nighttime awakenings (since 6 months old she’s slept 12 hours a night) and as long as her sleep environment was dark and quiet, she’s always taken good naps. Since we had a second baby, she has struggled with naps on and off (for almost 11 months). She is very high energy and independent, and over the last 11 months has figured out how to open her blinds, turn the lights on, hold her bowel movements to poop mid-nap time (I swear she’s timing it!), etc. in order to stay awake reading or playing. We’ve solved for each of those to maintain a sleep friendly environment (blackout curtains on the outside of our house, a light switch cover, etc) and now she does fall asleep for her nap almost every time. She tends to sleep for 1.5-2.5 hours during nap. However, she is often not tired for nap until 1pm or later and at times taking a long time to fall asleep. Most of the time, she sleeps until 3 pm or later – sometimes not waking until 4 or 4:30. When she doesn’t nap, she definitely seems dysregulated and has a harder time at dinner, handling “no”, transitions, etc. The problem is that for the past 6 weeks or so, she’s not falling asleep until 9:30pm. We were putting her down to bed by 7/7:30, but she was laying awake in the dark in her room sucking get thumb for 2 hours before falling asleep. We tried going for a later bedtime and finishing the routine by 8:30 but it’s still taking her an hour to fall asleep. She used to wake up between 6:30am-7:15 and now she’s often sleeping in until 7:45-8:15. On the one hand, it doesn’t seem like she’s ready to drop her nap as she acts cranky without one and does fall asleep if the room is dark and quiet… but on the other hand 9:30 seems like a horribly late bedtime and my understanding is that sleep quality is higher earlier in the evening vs “sleeping in”. We are used to putting her down by 6/6:30 as a baby and up until a couple months ago she would fall asleep by 7:30 or 8 at the latest. Now that we’ve figured out how to keep her room blackout, we haven’t tried skipping her nap so I’m unsure if she’d fall asleep earlier without a nap (I imagine she would). What do you recommend?
“Since we had a second baby, she has struggled with naps on and off (for almost 11 months).” Please describe in more detail.
“The problem is that for the past 6 weeks or so, she’s not falling asleep until 9:30pm.” Place her alone with toys or books (no screens nor parental nor sibling interaction) for 15-20 minutes for 2-3 nights and describe her mood and behavior.
Read pages 81-84 and 309-320 in my book and tell me your thoughts.
I will try to help you.