If you have not already done so, please read Blog Posts 1 through 5 that describe how sleep is important and beneficial. I will post specific information for parents and children based on my book, “Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child.” Please do not be put off by my book’s length. This is a reference book. Read only the topic of interest to you.
Subjective daytime sleepiness is an indicator of an individual’s sleep insufficiency. Daytime drowsiness is a marker for unhealthy sleep.
Some children need more sleep than most other children and some children need less sleep than most other children. A child who is drowsy when awake during the day needs more sleep. Adults can report subjective daytime sleepiness and young children can be observed by parents for signs of drowsiness.
In a study, among 10-year-old children, objective sleep duration had an effect on gray matter volume in a region of the brain,
When these 10-year-old-children, were divided into two groups:
Comparing these two groups of children, there was a difference in how sleep duration affected gray matter volume of a region of the brain.
Some children have what superficially appears to be ample sleep by clock time, but they are drowsy during the day because of sleep insuffiency and this adversely affects brain development.
The duration of night sleep itself is not a sufficient measurement of healthy sleep.
Daytime drowsiness means unhealthy sleep.
Watch your child, not the clock.
For more information on ‘Drowsiness’, see Blog Posts 83, 115X, 226C, 232AX, and 232BX.
My 2.5 year old usually goes to bed by 7 but that has been pushed back to 7:15 or 7:30 lately for random reasons. She gets up around 7-7:30am. In the morning she says she’s sleepy and lays down on the couch. She’s always had higher sleep needs than others her age.
I’d say she only falls asleep 50% of the time that we give her daily “nap time”.
Do you think she is tired because of the slightly later bed times or could it be something else?
Please describe her mood and behavior when alone with toys (no parental or sibling interaction nor screens) between 6-7:30PM.
When she naps, when does it occur and how long does it last?
“…could it be something else?”: Are you worried about a medical condition?
Lately in the evenings she gets extra clingy (so she’s not often by herself) and starts to “melt” by not listening/obeying well when I try to get her to do things like put on pj’s or brush teeth. Sometimes she just gets quiet and stares at nothing. Our routine is that by 6 we start to wind down with a final meal/snack, bath, then bedtime routine so she doesn’t spend much time alone during that time of day.
When she does nap, it’s about 2 hrs but sometimes longer like yesterday’s whopping 3.5hr nap. Other times she won’t nap at all.
No, I don’t think I’m worried about a medical condition but I just thought sleeping ~12 hrs a night would be plenty so I wasn’t previously thinking the 7:30 bedtime could be causing her sleepiness. Reading this post makes me think it is though…
“Lately in the evenings…” How long ago did she start behaving this way?
When she started to behave this way, how was she napping?
About what time at night does this behavior (“…she gets extra clingy (so she’s not often by herself) and starts to “melt” by not listening/obeying well when I try to get her to do things like put on pj’s or brush teeth. Sometimes she just gets quiet and stares at nothing) begin?
I will help you. Please carefully read Blog Posts 83,115X, 226C, 232AX, 232BX, and 232D and give me your thoughts.
After reading those blog posts I think she IS fatigued by too late of a bed time! She started acting sleepy during the day (but skipping her nap half the time) when we started unintentionally pushing her bedtime just 30 minutes later. Since reading your tagged posts I have been more strict with a 7pm bedtime and she immediately stopped acting drowsy during the day and asking to lay down during playtime anymore. She still skips nap time sometimes (she’s >2.5 yrs old) but her daytime energy has greatly improved. Thank you!
When you moved the bedtime earlier, did it have an affect on her wake-up time?
Thank you. I wish you sweet dreams for your child. My sincere goal is to raise the visibility of accurate information regarding children’s sleep. To encourage other parents, please consider writing, and posting here, a narrative report of your sleep adventure (please include the role of the father) that I would use it as a Blog Post or perhaps, only if you feel comfortable, an Amazon book review. Thank you.
Hmm she did wake up one time earlier than normal (6:30 instead of 7-7:30am). But usually she woke around the same time, between 7 and 7:30. One day we all even slept in until 7:45 so I guess it was variable!
Hi Dr. Weissbluth! I’m very delayed in responding to your last comment on this blog post. Since I’ve actually written a few narrative reports of my successful sleep journeys with my kids for you on here I decided to write a review for your book on Amazon this time. It was actually from reading Amazon reviews that led me to buy your book in the first place years ago!
I just went to a baby shower where all my friends there know how well my children sleep, but many of them are suffering themselves from sleeplessness and co-sleeping in separate beds from their spouses, etc. I told them all when they asked me all about your methods and how well it works so your mission to raise visibility about children’s sleep is taking place all over by us readers!
Related to this blog post, I recently had a bout with my youngest (15 month old) who began waking up just a little earlier than I wished at 6:30 instead of her normal 7:15/30. Her bed time had been slowly pushed back each night because she’s a happy girl playing with big sister and didn’t act tired (instead of 6pm bedtime it became 6:30-6:45). As soon as I pushed her bedtime back up to 6/6:10 she started sleeping in again until 7:15-7:45!
Thank you, Jaime
Doesn’t it sound totally crazy to say that if you want your infant to sleep in later in the morning, move the bedtime earlier! Would you friends believe you or think that you are delusional?
Perhaps you could write a summary and updated narrative report of your sleep journey and I would publish it as Blog Post (please excuse me if you have already done so).
Hi there again. Haha, yes I think my friends definitely DO think I’m crazy and delusional when I tell them that early bedtimes mean later wake times!! Thankfully, some friends have listened to my (your) advice and had great results with their children’s sleep!
I have not felt worthy of writing you a blog post/sleep journey quite yet because my youngest started waking too early again!
2 weeks ago we came back from vacation. My kids were very sleep deprived so I have been putting them to bed very early. I pushed my 3-year-olds bedtime from 7 to 6:30 and my 1.5-year old’s from 6:15 to 5:45. On vacation we had a two hour time change and then even had daylight savings time so I understood they might be confused and that’s why they’d sometimes still wake up too early like 6:15am even with the early bedtimes. So I kept putting them to bed very early in the hopes they would sleep until 7 or 7:30 again. But I haven’t been very successful with my youngest! I keep putting her down at 5:45 but she will even have night wakings and early morning wake ups (5:45). Aren’t those signs of sleep deprivation? There was also some sickness that went through our house so I couldn’t tell if this was just a snotty nose or a fever that was waking her up. Anyways, do you have any suggestions for what action I should take at this point? Is 5:45pm too early for an extended time? Maybe she needs to go to bed a little later again like 6:15/30? Why would she have night wakings if she is going to bed so early? Thank you for your wealth of knowledge and so much willingness to help!
(Another thought I had was that maybe she can only go 12 hours at night. My oldest was a super-star sleeper and would go 13-14 hours but maybe my youngest can only do 12 and that’s why she wakes up early? Before we went on vacation, knowing they wouldn’t sleep as well, I put them to bed early (5:30 and 6:30pm) for several nights. My youngest, however, didn’t sleep in longer, rather woke up around 6.)
Place her alone with toys (no screens nor parental nor sibling interaction) for 15-20 minutes between 4-5pm for 3 consecutive days and describe her mood and behavior.
How many times does she awaken at night and what typically occurs when she awakens.
To answer your questions about her night waking… When I was putting her to bed at 5:45 for almost 2 weeks, her night wakings were about 5-15 minutes of small cries. If it reached 15 minutes then I would go in to check on her. One time there was an obvious reason for the crying (had soaked through her diaper/outfit) but all other times there seemed no reason. She would look me in the eyes and try to laugh/make me laugh! This started happenening 1-2 times a night.
I’m happy to report back now that for her alone time each day between 4 & 5pm she played very contendedly and happily by herself! I did do some experimenting though that I maybe should not have done… I tried to read her drowsy/sleepy cues instead of picking a set bedtime each night like I used to do. Sometimes she went to bed around 6:30-7 and at first this seemed to help her sleep in late which was wonderful but soon she started to cry as I put her down at night and have a hard time falling asleep (30 minutes latency). She would even writhe and cry as soon as I told her it was bedtime and took her to her room that I [probably incorrectly] thought that she was having so much fun playing with sister just before bedtime that she was just protesting that. But in hindsight this is probably pointing to too late of a bedtime, right?
Describe exactly the drowsy cues that you observed.
She is usually eating dinner right before bed so one or two times I thought I saw her mood change by slowing down and starting to stare. But often I didn’t observe any drowsy cues because she would be then after eating be squealing with glee running up and down the hallway with her sister. Eventually I would just assume this was maybe a second wind and would take her to bed.
Although it is not crystal clear, I think that she still has a sleep debt and will benefit from an earlier bedtime, as you have suggested. Watch her mood and behavior for drowsy signs and the clock time if she shows pre-sleep arousal. Choose an earlier bedtime tha comports with your family values and routines, but for now, temporarily, the earlier the better.
Is this OK?
That sounds like a good idea. I was reading the parent report in the “5:30 bedtime rut” section of your book and it felt like a similar story to ours… too early of a bedtime she started to wake too early, and too late of a bedtime fixed the problem until she had unfortunately accrued a sleep debt. Your suggestion there was the same here: to try a slightly earlier bedtime consistently. I will temporarily push it to 5:45 again and then if she starts waking too early I’ll push it to just 6 and see how she does. Thank you so much for your input and help!